Meetings on-the-run: refugee camp at Xenos.
We are sorry to see the Akron Beacon-Journal (ABJ) grow so entangled in such a pointless investigation of this Christian ministry.
On the hand we’re pleased that after three months and scores of interviews, the ABJ reporter was unable to find even one specific problem with Xenos Christian Fellowship. On the other hand, it is a shame the ABJ was put through so much effort.
The truth is, this is a charitable organization which has only helped the community in Northeast Ohio. We help the disadvantaged and poor. We help young people mature and become responsible and sacrificial family members. Our volunteers work hard and sacrifice so much, they deserve to be recognized by the press for their contributions. Instead, their volunteer labors are unfairly criticized, not in a way that helps them improve.
We would like to respectfully raise two reasons why our ministry is merely getting attacked, not criticized in a useful manner:
- The few people who called us a cult never once raised a problem to anyone in this ministry before taking their complaints to the highest authorities in the most public forums–where nobody can dialog or rectify any problems.
- All their complaints were either proven false (like the macabre cemetery rituals), or the accusations were unverifiable and vague.
This began in December, 2007 when a mother grew angry with her son and notified us she was going to destroy our ministry. We were surprised, and immediately offered to do anything we could to help reconcile her with her son. Riverwood Chapel also offered to help them reconcile.
But rather than respond these our earnest offers to help, she began making alarming charges using public forums in an effort to destroy our ministry as promised. She was determined to limit her adult son’s right to choose his own faith. A long list of government officials were badgered by a series of inflammatory letters, and even though they didn’t want to, they eventually had to investigate us because of the persistence.
But all the investigations found we were innocent. Not one concrete problem was identified. Even those who accuse us are unable to establish any specific wrongdoings by Xenos.
There is no way to resolve these kind of accusations:
- If Xenos is a “cult”, what can we do to change?
- If Xenos is “brainwashing” kids, what can we do to stop it?
- If Xenos is “driving people away from God” as the ABJ quotes, what can we do to change it?
Why involve so many public officials and organizations? Can these organizations do anything about such vague things as “cult” or “brainwashing”?
Why involve the press? Is terminating our ministry the only option available?
The real threat is to the relationship between mother and son, and it may grow irrevocably alienated through these efforts. It surely must be clear by now the effort to discredit this ministry won’t work, because Xenos is an honorable ministry–and the proof is the inability of anyone to establish any truthful or concrete issues.
Using inflammatory language is not as effective as it once once. It was a tactic used successfully by racists against Jews or blacks in the past. Nazis called Jews “monsters” and scared the populace towards Jews. These tactics create alarm and fear while eliminating reasonable dialog–which is precisely what the Nazis wanted to avoid.
But in an open society with the Internet and a free press, the vocabulary of bigotry is not as effective. Since there are no real issues here, since the falsehoods were debunked, the only way to attack this ministry is with inflammatory words and names like “cult”.
Is there any opportunity for a reasonable dialog? Is there any way to set aside inflammatory language, and simply discuss real problems?
The pressing need is to reconcile relationships.
What is happening at Xenos is so very exciting: a growing number of people are responding to the great news that Jesus Christ died for our sins. People from a strict or controlling orientation are naturally repulsed by the freedom and grace of the Gospel, and this is a problem we have encountered before in our ministry.
Our beliefs and teachings are readily available all over the Web. We would like to ask:
- Are any of our teachings not grounded fully in the Bible?
- Was there anything we did at our meetings that deserve such harsh public criticism?
We would like to know some answers, and make amends for whatever wrong we’ve done. But it’s impossible to make amends for cult-like behavior if we don’t know what that behavior is!
Our meetings are open to anyone, and meeting times and places publically posted. The ABJ reporter attended our meetings and enjoyed them.
At 6pm this Saturday, February 14th, before the Valentines Day celebrations begin, we will be meeting at the Quirk Community Center in Cuyahoga Falls. We welcome anyone with doubts about this ministry to attend and see for themselves what a casual, fun time we have at Xenos.
We teach the opposite of what cults teach: we teach about freedom through the love of Christ.
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Also, CD, regarding your cult-identification list, I’ve seen this before: didn’t it originate from the old Cult Awareness Network, before they got sued out of existence? It definitely contains some useful info, but it’s also incredibly broad in so many ways (at least 50% of the criteria).
“Cult” would encompass the Catholic Church for sure (“The Guru is always right”), Big Brothers (“Mentoring”), the Marines (“aggressive recruiting”), Republicans and Democrats (“Inconsistency & Contradictory Messages”), the Cub Scouts (“Indoctrination of members”), Microsoft (“Money-Grubbing”), and all Postmodernists (“belief equals truth”). I truly prefer the classic definition of “Cult” used by Walter Martin (“Kingdom of the Cults”) which I discuss in my blog here >>
Christians once used “cult” to designate groups making false claims to be Christian in doctrine, like the JW’s.
I wish the secular culture had come up with their own word before they thoroughly secularized “cult”. Something like “poopy-heads”, so we could still use “cult”. Now we (Christians) have to come up with a new word that means what “cult” is supposed to mean.
Hey CD,
Well, the “peer pressure” is a little this-way-then-that when dealing with the High Schoolers & even college groups. It reminds me somewhat of those schools of fish you see on the Discovery Channel–they all zip this way, then that, and does anyone understand how they do it all at once?
At a practical level, it means sometimes they’re all “on board” with our ministry efforts, then suddenly they’re all “on board” against our ministry efforts. But it isn’t a Xenos thing, it’s truly an age thing. The difference is that at Xenos, hopefully, we’re able to promote their maturity and teach them how to think independantly (i.e., critical and biblical thinking) enough so they don’t swing too far “out there” — frankly, we’ve done a darn good job of it. Our college graduates are successful professionals and productive, well-adjusted members of society–now, with good marriages!
These kids are not only engaged in public schools & hobbies & jobs, they excel, by-and-large. And more often than not, when they get involved here, those who were indifferent, lazy or depressed become achievers in a remarkable fashion.
So if it is “peer pressure” — and who can deny it happens? — it’s pretty good “peer pressure” compared to what normally occurs in the halls of the high school.
Thanks for the warning & support, Icy. There is good reason for wisdom & caution, in so many ways. I do believe, however, that suffering unjustly is perhaps the most wonderful and joyous experience our Body of Christ has ever known, as I wrote about on my blog: http://remonstrance.neoblogs.org/look-ma-im-famous/
I highly recommend it.
Keith,
It’s not a hit-and-run. It’s what Rush Limbaugh refers to as “the drive-by media.” You’ve been the victim of a drive-by character assassination. Someone makes allegations of X, Y & Z, shortly followed by the media picking up the story and shouting that you have been accused of X, Y & Z. You know, shove a microphone in your face and ask, “So, Mr. McCallum, when did you stop beating your wife?” The accusations then get accepted as fact and your reputation is ruined before (if ever) anything close to the truth gets broadcast or printed. I don’t know if Mr. & Mrs. Smith’s mini-protest made the evening broadcast on NewsNet5 but NEO Xenos is very lucky that they received fair treatment on Page 1 above the fold in the ABJ. However, I’m sure that Mrs. Smith has done her level best to slander you to the local school administrations and public officials. This technique is so effective because, while the people that know you will never believe it, the vast majority that don’t know anything about you will accept it as fact. After all, if it wasn’t true, why would anyone make these horrible accusations?
I think that you and yours have been very forgiving and graceful in all this. I am afraid that I would have responded in kind and slung mud right back. Although I would have made sure I wasn’t making allegations but statements of fact. For example, I would have published the name of Mr. Smith’s workplace. After all, everyone knows who you work for, right? Unfortunately, that would probably burn the only stable bridge to peace and reconciliation that remains. Considering Mrs. Smith’s ubiquitous posts in blog comments sections (under a wide variety of names but always the same style), Mr. Smith has been peculiarly quiet on this issue. I wonder who exacted the promise from Mrs. Smith to drop the blog from Thanksgiving through Christmas?
Please be careful you guys. While the psychological effects of a campaign like this are bad enough, there is an element of physical danger involved as well. People with controlling personalities are often prompted to violence when they suffer a major breakdown in their reign. It may take months or years for them to build up to a psychotic break but this woman is already showing that she has a hard time distinguishing her personal subjective experience from the reality of the external world.
Keith –
Hi again. On my blog I have an objective set of criteria for destructive cult like behavior. I think that list might be helpful in creating objective criteria. Brainwashing is rather difficult: isolation, artificial stress, fear, hypnosis are the sorts of things you would expect to see from churches engaged in this sort of behavior. Xenos has some peer pressure, sure. They have discussion and people are convincing, absolutely. Brainwashing, I don’t see it.
Heck their child members go to public schools and large mainstream universities.
Thanks for stopping by, kris & Icy Mt… and thanks for the support.
I’ve gotta say that CD-HOST hit the nail on the head: we’ve always wanted to know exactly what the problem is, if any, and deal with it.
Unfortunately, this hasn’t been a dialog — it’s more like hit-and-run by drunk drivers. It’s just a couple of people masquerading as many people (“anonymous” posts).
Sorta like Mr/Mrs “Gelical” above–very bold language, but runs away if someone raises a few penetrating questions. Jeesh. Hit-and-run drunk drivers.
I have a couple of friends in your fellowship but they didn’t tell me it was anywhere near this bad. Congratulations on a mostly flattering article. This young man’s story is just tragic. He should not be made to choose between his family and his faith. This article really shows who forced the choice. God bless you, Tom. Our HG in Columbus is praying for you, your family and your fellowship.
Also, I followed CD’s advice above and posted a treatise over there, as well.
Hi Keith and gang:
I’ve been watching the debate over Xenos for some time (across several different sites and threads). One neutral, independent observer (Church Discipline, CD-HOST at this site: http://church-discipline.blogspot.com/2007/07/breaking-away-case-study-from-xenos.html) began an independent investigation into Xenos, even interviewing Dennis. Currently he finds no basis to the “cult” accusation leveled against Xenos. In fact, he has vented his frustration against the accusers b/c of their failure to stick around and make a coherent and specific case against Xenos. See the above website or the comment he recently posted below about this situation. I believe it should be an encouragement to you.
“CD-Host has left a new comment on the post “Breaking away, case study from Xenos”:
I have to say I’m getting rather frustrated with anonymous posters posting comments about Xenos and then not answering followups about what specifically happened, who and when. With abusive churches I’m generally able to get a fairly clear story, and that is not the case with Xenos at all.
I appreciate E for sticking around on the other thread and making her point about informal group pressure. We disagreed but she defended her point of view and I respect that about her even if I believe she was wrong on the facts. But these accusations without follow up or even much clarity seem very very wrong to me.
So I’ll repeat what I’ve said. So far in lots and lots and lots of conversation I have yet to see evidence that Xenos encourages or even tolerates misconduct with regards to discipline from 1991 on. I do not believe they are a cult. I don’t think anyone would accuse this blog of mindless cheerleading for churches. I continue to say my feeling is that Xenos is not guilty. “
from CD-HOST
Greetings, Mrs. (Mr?) Gelical! Thanks for the update…Sometimes we wonder about what’s happening down there in Columbus.
I’m Keith McCallum, and I’m surprised you’ve never heard of me. If you really were from the 1980s era, you’d know that Dennis & I split the teaching load 50-50 beginning in late ’82 — so I was teaching your Central Teaching half the time!
Did you know I was a Xenos elder from ’83 to 1991? Ok, don’t I share some of the blame?
You gave some cult-credits to my mom, but why did I escape? (Didn’t I teach hundreds of Xenos leaders in my Leadership Training courses? So don’t I deserve at least an honorable mention?)
And what about Buck’s role? Surely if Den & my mother poisoned so many, Buck would be a party worth mentioning, right? I mean, wouldn’t that help your “McCallum-poison” case? (Remember, Buck is my little bro, right? He’s gone now, you should know.) Buck especially was active, very independent, and built a huge sphere of home churches and leaders. Dennis could never boss Buck around much, or “poison” him. (Buck wasn’t so frail, remember?)
But maybe you were actually active in the 1990s, after I moved up here in ’94, and not the 1980s…maybe that’s why you forgot to add either Buck or I to your “McCallum-poison” conspiracy. Haha, come to think of it, I bet we’ve never met before!
Oops!
But there’s so many more reasons why your stories don’t add up:
#1) Your stories are 30 years old, you claim, but why didn’t you give us more recent accounts? Even if you’re telling the truth, isn’t it possible things have changed?
#2) The cell phone story–that proves what, exactly? Someone over-reacted to a ringing Cell Phone, so what? (Maybe the guy was a high school teacher!) But it just doesn’t make any sense, because a leader who alienates first-time guests like this would soon become a leader of an empty room! Who would ever go back to his home church?
#3) Maybe I was the problem in Columbus, not Dennis? And since I moved up here, maybe they’ve straightened things out? Hmmm…
#4) Why don’t you get your “100s or 1000s of others” to speak up? Your story is completely unheard-of. Give them our Web address here, tell them to lend some credibility to your story. Why aren’t they supporting your effort to expose this poison? It seems your cause is noble and worth supporting, if it’s true–but you’re the first one to tell such stories. Don’t they care about those “left behind” …? (Or, are they hiding and afraid, 30 years later?)
#5) How can Xenos give such great “Fundamentalist” Bible teachings if all the teachers are “poisoned” and abusive and perverts, like you’re claiming? (“poisoned by Dennis” means they’re doing what you’re accuse him of doing, right?)
#6) For that matter, why would you be ashamed to tell us who you really are? (I gotta believe you’re not Mr/Mrs. “Gelical”)
#7) Why are all the national Christian leaders who love Xenos and teach at their Summer Institute so deceived about Xenos, and you’re the only one who “knows” the truth? Don’t they care? Is Xenos so skilled at covering it all up? (If so, how could such men as Larry Crabb and Mark Driscol miss these “1000s” of others? How high-up does this conspiracy go?)
I think I’ll just stop listing the incongruities, even though there’s more.
If Xenos is delivering great Bible teachings, as you say, why not download some of those good teachings and start getting some biblical help that way? It certainly couldn’t hurt, and maybe the Bible can help you deal with any bitterness that may still be ruining your life since the 1980s.
You sound really unhappy and bitter, and it’s gotta be eating away inside…why not deal with this?
100s if not 1000s of people have discovered over the years, namely that Xenos has great biblical teaching and a tight enjoyable culture surrounded by cult-like control and manipulation at the upper levels of leadership. Whether this manipulation has traveled to the Akron Stow area remains to be seen. I will shed some light on the inner circle in the 1980s.
People have argued back and forth for over 30-years about whether Xenos is a cult group or not. Well it all depends on what the definition of cult group is. The teaching is clearly evangelical (fundamentalism for you non-religious types). However, at the home-group level and up you are exposed to a culture that is increasingly cultic in its control and manipulation.
If you are not in HG leadership you will not have much experience of these points so stop defending what you are ignorant of. I spent the majority of the 1980s at Xenos (Fishhouse) during the Sinclair rd. days. I lived in a ministry house and had little exposure to Dennis and Gary. After several years I entered into Home Group Leadership and I realized some dramatically different things. Dennis and to some extent Martha were the driving force behind the cultic behavior in the leadership.
Dennis was fond of cussing out leaders for not making their quota of new converts. Worldly would be a kind descriptor for Dennis in the 1980s. Egomaniacal heading toward sociopath would be more accurate. It was always his way or a world-class temper tantrum would ensue. Many have faulted Dennis but not Gary, however I would point out that Gary made no visible attempts to help Dennis demonstrate the boundaries a typical 3-year old would have mastered.
Dennis was the one who drove the dossier approach to managing the home groups. He wanted all the dirt on everyone. Who they were dating, what they were doing, how they were spending their money, what were they saying about him. I thought I had become a member of the mob. Dennis is one of the most insecure men I had ever met at the time. Since then I have done prison ministry and met some people as insecure and undeveloped.
[Ed.Note: we would like to point out this anonymous poster has refused to answer any questions or provide any verification of this report. We deleted a paragraph here because the author launches into a highly inappropriate and irrelevant diatribe against Dennis. Yet the remaining post is left intact, even though the the post is most-likely a mean-spirited prank. We believe posts like this provide a good example of what Christian persecution actually looks like: unverifiable, hysterical and incoherent. The author should contest this editor's note and answer the questions raised below if there is any reasonable justification for believing any of this.]
Recently a friend asked me if his 15-year-old daughter should attend the Xenos Youth Ministry. I said “sure, she will get solid biblical teaching in a culturally relevant context.” Later that night I received an angry call from my friend. His daughter had been cornered and verbally accosted by the leader. It turns out that she received a text in the middle of the teaching and had replied to it. The leader was upset that she wasn’t paying attention to him, when she was alone later in the evening he cornered her, cussed her out, and threatened her. Had I been there I would have given this leader the ass-kicking he deserved. Here in lies the problem. Xenos leadership requires such a high degree of yes-menship, that is to say sycophancy, that no one has any backbone left once they get to the top.
Alas the cure for Xenos’ unloving, controlling, manipulating, debasing leadership training is to not only remove Dennis but everyone he has infected in the last 40 years. The cure would obviously kill the patient.
So instead, Xenos will continue to grow and salt evangelical churches around the city of Columbus with very biblically educated, culturally relevant, Christian disciples who are slightly wounded. This happens every 3-5 years when Dennis has a temper tantrum and says to the entire congregation it is my way or the highway and 1000 people leave to go to other churches.
Some might be upset that I have exposed Dennis in this way, that is why I have kept dozens of more worldly things to myself. Other would say didn’t you have to mature in Christ. Absolutely, and I still am, however, when confronted by my worldliness I worked on boundaries not explaining the behavior away and forcing those people to leave through gossip and slander. Finally, I read Dennis’ articles about the source of the cultic behavior at Xenos being inexperienced leaders and homegroup members looking for surrogate parents. This claim is simply false. Dennis is a hypocrite who has been told of his cultic ways for at least 35 years.
Dennis should have been a CT teacher and an author or a mob boss. He writes incredibly thought-provoking material. He should never lead. He has needed phychotherapy for decades.
My friends here have commented very well and quite thoroughly, but I would like to touch on a few of the minor points of your post, Tara. Please understand I do this kindly.
First, it is important to realize that when we say a person is “raised a Christian” that we make a clear theological distinction between being raised in a home which exalts basic Christian morality and and a relationship in which a person gains salvation as a result of their guardian’s relationship with Christ.
The first is a valid view- I was raised in a Christian home. My parents are both Bible-believing Christians and a biblical view of the world was espoused within the framework of our family.
However, the idea that a person somehow becomes reconciled to God as a result of being raised in that environment without ever themselves making that decision to take the step of faith to follow Christ is incorrect, and invalid biblically.
This is loosely termed “vicarious Christianity,” and a more shaky foundation upon which to stand would be hard to find.
The second point I would like to make is really quite minor.
I personally do not hold the view that Christ told the parable of the prodigal son in order to demonstrate the importance of good works.
It is an allegorical look at the relationship God wants to have with us- we are all the son who has gone his own way, but we all have the same chance to realize the error of our ways and return to the Father who loves us so dearly that He doesn’t even mention how poorly and disrespectfully we treated Him.
It is a story of reconciliation and I pray you experience the same with those people who have wronged you.
I challenge you to take that hard step of faith in reaching out to them the same way the Lord Christ reached out to you.
God bless you in your strivations to run the race.
On the lack of Old Testament teaching issue…
I agree with the others – we do teach the O.T. In fact, you’ll find that the more you study the New Testament, the more you realize that it teaches a significant amount of the O.T. Someone can correct me if I’m wrong, but I think I’ve heard it said that a third of the N.T. is O.T. material.
The apostles were constantly referring back to the O.T. in the N.T. Gospels and Epistles. Many of their letters (teachings) were mere extensions and conclusions of O.T. teachings, albeit in light of what Christ did “at the proper time”. The mystery of Christ revealed if you will.
Also, most of the first believers were Jews. The only scripture they were familiar with at the time they received the gospel, was the O.T. because that’s all that existed.
So you see, it would be very difficult, if not impossible to teach the N.T. without the context of the O.T. – hope that helps too.
Great questions!
Dar- thank you. You explained this much better than I did!
Tara, it seems like your issues are not really issues with Xenos, mostly issues with Protestant beliefs in general. I will say that you are right in that usually not every single verse of a book is read when we do our teachings. Personally, I would describe many of the teachings as a hybrid between exegetical and topical teachings. For example, I am doing a teaching on Acts 5. The beginning is an exegetical look at the story of Ananias and Sapphira, and then I will launch into a topical teaching on hypocrisy. Many of the teachings at Xenos use a few verses from the book to draw a topic and then start topically teaching them using many different Bible verses. There is nothing wrong with doing that at all, I think it works quite well. As far Xenos leaving stuff out, I would have to disagree with that. I think Xenos teachings go after many subjects some churches would leave out. If you have a specific issue that you think Xenos avoids or fails to teach, I would ask that you present that. I also think if you would have asked any of these questions or voiced issues you had they would have been dealt with in a cordial manner. We do definitely teach the Old Testament, but we were probably not in an Old Testament book series the times you came.
Tara, thank you so much for commenting here. You are welcome anytime. I hope we can answer some of your questions.
We absolutely believe in good works. We just don’t believe that good works earn you salvation. Christ died on the cross for our sin. We need forgiveness because we are separated from God because of our sin. When we ask God to apply Christ’s payment for sin by dying on the cross to us, we are saved. See the following verses.
Ephesians 2:8-9 (NASB)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Galatians 2:16 (NASB)
16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.
But we are all about doing good works as an expression of the love God gave us by sending His Son to die for us even when He did not have to do that.
People in our fellowship serve each other and those outside of our fellowship on a weekly and even daily basis. We encourage one another, exhort each other, admonish each other, and bear one another’s burdens. Our relationships are close and personal. But even more than that, we love those outside our fellowship, too. Our people serve at South Street Ministries, an after school program inner city ministry on the south side of Akron. They also serve at the soup kitchen at the Salvation Army. In addition, we also serve at Access, Inc., a battered-women’s shelter in the area. We have a few families in our fellowship and outside who are suffering economic hardships, as you suggested, and we offer food when needed and help them with jobs, transportation, etc.
We are not saying Catholics are not Christians. If a Catholic has received Christ through faith, as stated in the verse I cited above, then of course they are a Christian. Not all people attending our fellowship are Christians. In the same way, not all Catholics attending mass are believers either. It does not matter what church you attend, you are a Christian if you have asked that Christ’s death on the cross to apply to you. Tom may have been Catholic, but was not a Christian then. This is not true for all Catholics.
We also don’t believe there is anything wrong with music. However, it is not mandated in Scripture. We choose not to have Christian music for the sole reason that most non-Christians are uncomfortable with it. They don’t know the words or the tune and feel uncomfortable when all those around them do. It makes them stick out. We want them to be comfortable so they can hear the Gospel message. I, personally, enjoy many Christian songs and sing my heart out in my car with my mp3 player blaring away.
As for only teaching a few verses and leaving the rest out, I’m sorry, but I’m not sure where you got that impression. We do exegetical teaching, teaching a whole book of the Bible from chapter 1 to the end. We feel very strongly in teaching the whole counsel of God. We spend months teaching one book.
For example, we’ve been teaching the book of Galatians now for I don’t know how long – maybe since October. In many cases, there may be so much content in a few verses that it takes the whole teaching to cover it. In other cases, we may teach a whole chapter at a time. I’m not sure where you got the idea that we purposefully leave things out. If you so desire, our Central Teachings are on our website in mp3 format. You can choose a book of the Bible that has been taught and then listen to all the teachings on that book. If you do this, tell us what you think then. I hope this clears up that confusion.
We do teach OT books – we have taught Genesis and Joshua, for example. This past fall we taught a 5 week course on the Old Testament called “Old Testament Survey.” We believe the NT is the fulfillment of OT prophecy. The OT & NT are equally inspired by God, and we have an incredibly high view of it. We cite the OT frequently when teaching the NT. You will find these OT Central Teachings on our website also.
As for your rituals question: yes, Jesus did fulfill the whole of the Law perfectly. He was the only one to do so. But He did this just for that reason. He lived a perfect life then willingly gave up His life as a perfect sacrifice for our sin so that we no longer had to live under the Law, with its ritualistic practices, to be acceptable to God. In fact, no one was ever able to do so anyway. That is why it is called grace which means undeserved merit. Now we can approach God through Christ and not through ritual.
There is nothing wrong with rituals per se, as long as we understand that performing them does not bring us acceptance by God. See again the passages I cited earlier. See also this passage:
Colossians 2:16-17 (NASB)
16 Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day—
17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.
We do part ways on this issue with Catholicism. But then, so do many Protestants. However, let me repeat, that does not mean there are no Catholic Christians. Of course there are. But we must all approach God on the basis of grace through faith, no matter our church affiliation.
Tara- I am also sorry if you did not feel loved by this group. It is never okay to ignore someone in your circumstances, but did you speak with these people and do you know for a fact that they felt this way?
I am not sure who brought you and which group you attended, but I can say that as a member of this group I feel highly educated in the Word of God through the teachings. And what things they do not cover, they encourage you to read and study and to ask questions about. As a college science major, I love to ask questions and have always felt that I received Biblically supported answers. And since I get into the Bible- I can see for myself!
Also, about a year ago we were studying the book of Joshua at the large Saturday night teaching.
Lastly, as a group of believers in the year 2009 we are living in an age after the time of Christ and we are a church that worships and does ministry as Christ and the Bible instructs us to in light of the coming of the Messiah. Many of the rituals and such in the Old Testament have no place now that Christ has come and fulfilled the law.
But again, I am sorry if you felt wronged. I hope that there can be some reconciliation between you and these people.
I think it is important to note that not all Catholics are non-Christians. Just because you grew up in a Catholic home/church does not make you a Chrisitan though. I grew up in a Catholic family and in a Catholic school. For years I had no idea that the true definition of being a Christian or being “saved as it were, was through asking God to forgive your sins and to accept what Jesus did on the cross for your sins. So for 15 years I thought I was a Christian because I grew up in the church when in fact I was not.
Another point I wanted to make was on the rituals. Jesus was always battling the Pharisees on this issue. The Pharisees clung to the rituals whereas Jesus was always trying to point out that we no longer need those rituals to relate with God. The rituals are almost a separation between you and God. I mean I never felt close to God sitting in a pew once a week with a whole bunch of people I didn’t know. Plus, having a relationship with God is just that- a relationship, rituals such as communion and reciting the same prayer over and over again would be likened to saying the same phrase to your husband/wife everytime you wanted to “relate”.
As for not focusing on “good works” it really isn’t about works- Jesus came to fulfill the law not to abolish (Matt. 5:17). Therefore the law no longer applies to us. Plus, just read Eph. 2:8,9- NOT as a result of works so that no one can boast, it is the by GRACE. Grace is a free gift (Rom. 6:23), something you can never earn. In order to earn your way into heaven you would need to be perfect! Rom. 3:23- “All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.” And James 2:10 sums it up nice: “For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.” So just one sin makes us unworthy to be in the presence of God. Exactly how many good works would it take to get into heaven?
Also, the ritual of confession makes no sense in light of the scripture. Christ died on the cross for the sins of all men, and all sins past, present, future- so why would we need to keep coming to God and keep asking for forgiveness to get into heaven? Any why can’t we talk to God on our own? Why through a priest?
Lastly, as an addition to the “good works” argument- it is not that bad deeds are overlooked. We are by nature sinners. However, as a believer, the Holy Spirit enters you and you become a new creature. I can definitely say that this is true for my life. I no longer want to hurt others or be selfish. Does that mean that I no longer hurt others and never have selfish thoughts though? Absolutely not. I will be called out by my Christian brothers and sisters when I screw up (thank God!) and I can learn to be better. Plus the Holy Spirit helps me to be a better person when I really on God to work through me. And that goes for all Chrisitans. It does not mean that you are perfect and no longer sin- it just means that God has already forgiven you and you can STOP focusing on yourself all the time and go out and love people!!! Because the essence of Christianity is LOVE of others, not always focusing on self. But Christians are not perfect.
Needed to put you one little bit of rearmk to say thank you yet again for all the precious opinions you have contributed in this article. This is certainly surprisingly generous of you to supply unhampered all most people might have sold for an electronic book to help make some dough on their own, particularly given that you might well have done it in case you desired. These ideas as well acted as the great way to recognize that other people online have the same zeal just like my personal own to figure out more regarding this problem. I’m sure there are numerous more pleasurable situations in the future for people who go through your website.
I have attended a couple of these Bible Study sessions in the past and I have a few questions. I read the ABJ article and I can 100% see Mrs. Smith’s point and her concerns. These are things I observed and had questions about but never got a chance to ask.
What’s wrong with rituals? Jesus himself participated in the Jewish customs and rituals of the time. He celebrated Passover and went to the Temple. So, why can’t we have Mass and music?
And how does being Catholic not considered Christian. The quote that struck me was the description of Tom’s Baptism when he said, “Before I was a Christian,” You were born and raised a Catholic CHRISTIAN, dude! We read the Bible and study it, too.
And the “not focusing on good works” part. I thought Jesus taught about good works. What about his parables of the Prodigal Son or the Good Samaritan? And “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” That sounds like good works to me. But, because you don’t focus on that, then I guess it’s okay to ignore a friend when she can barely pay her rent and is freezing in an apartment because her heat got turned off, just as an example.
One more reason I did not continue to attend, (a friend who also no longer attends brought me with her one week) is I didn’t like the seeming to “Pick and Choose” material. Teachers can spend an hour on a couple verses and then the next week a bunch is skipped. I don’t even know if I’m explaining it right but hopefully someone will know what I mean. Also, I never heard any Old Testiment teachings. I always believed you need to understand one to understand the other and thus the whole thing.
That’s all I have to say for now and I’m interested to see the replies people leave after this.
I want to reissue the invitation to anyone out there who has issues or complaints with us that you are welcome to respond on this site. In addition, you can go to Remonstrance.neoblogs.org, which is Keith’s site. Your comments will go directly to him.
Mr. Roszkowski, you have posted on this site so you can pass along this invitation to those you are aware of that have complaints.
We are anxious to read what you have to say. This is a forum where comments will be posted.
Here’s another web discussion on the article.
http://www.getreligion.org/?p=7695
Read this Web discussion about Ties that bind?
In anticipation of any Christian fundamentalists/ evangelicals who may happen upon this site, I would like to take a few moments to address them particularly.
I come from an evangelical background, having grown up in a Baptist church which belonged to the American Baptist Association. I attended that church for 24 years, and left 5 years ago due to conflict with administration which, at that time, I felt could not be reasonably resolved. (I have since reconciled with them, but maintained my body relationship with XCF.)
I have attended XCF with my wife for about three years now and I can attest, after subjecting Xenos to typical evangelical scrutiny, that they DO NOT teach, adhere to, promote, or otherwise endorse views which are contrary to anything in Scripture. In fact I have noticed quite the opposite- they not only teach God’s Word, they are extremely thorough in demonstrating its life application.
The biggest differences I have noticed fall more under the category of scruples than anything else.
I know very well how fundamentals and evangelicals have that “radar” out, looking for signs of any unusual activity (because I am one, haha) and just wanted to assure them that I have not, in 3 years, seen or heard anything Biblically untoward.
In fact, once I was introduced to Xenos, I became extremely convicted about my previous 26 years of evangelical fruitlessness.
Mr. Roszkowski?
You may not be aware of what went down as soon as we were made aware that your daughter felt she was being harassed by the youth of our fellowship. Following is the sequence of events which delineate the steps we took to resolve this as soon as we were made aware of the situation
.
Officer Barry Smith from the high school called and informed me that your daughter felt she was being harassed. And, by the way, he named your daughter. I asked him who was doing the harassing, but he refused to tell me.
My husband then called Officer Smith back and asked again, which of the youth in our group was doing the harassing. He again refused to tell us. So my husband then asked, if we couldn’t know who it was, could we at least know what harassing things were said or done to her so we could address the issue with the harassers. He wouldn’t tell us that, either.
We then went a step further to try and resolve this by calling Sue Schur, principal at the high school. If your daughter was being harassed, we wanted to put a stop to it. However, again, she would not tell us who was doing the harassing or what they were saying or doing in the interest of confidentiality.
She did inform us your daughter had come in upset about being harassed and that she, Ms. Schur, offered to call the parents of the kids who were allegedly harassing her and put a stop to it that way. Your daughter was emphatic (Ms. Schur’s words) that no parents be called in. Ms. Schur felt that by insisting the parents be called would only upset your daughter further.
Next, we asked the kids in the group, all of them, if they had done any harassing. No information came to light. There was one possible disagreement that had to do with a car, but nothing to do with Xenos.
Next we met with Ms. Schur and again, no information was forthcoming that would allow us to deal directly with the situation. As a matter of fact, Ms. Schur insisted that the conversation leave out any and all names. She also did not know (or would not tell us) what specific things were being said or done.
We were then informed that the Riverwood pastors were being contacted by you, so we asked them what the content of the harassment was. They, too, did not tell us until much later. When they did finally tell us, there were no specific harassments stated. One was the alleged cemetery incident (which we now know never occurred according to both the cemetery owners and the police.) The rest included vague accusations that were simply labeled harassment without any specific words or who allegedly perpetrated the harassment. There were other alleged accusations that we were never able to pin down. – shop-lifting, encouraging kids to go out at night without their parents permission, etc. We investigated this as best we could without having a names to go on with parents both inside and outside our fellowship. No complaints from any of the parents arose. If you are aware of specific children who were allegedly encouraged by anyone in Xenos to do this, we would like to know. As it is, they are vague and unsubstantiated accusations which we are unable to act on.
You mention “others” who have complaints. Could you please encourage them to contact us directly? It is possible to do that through this site or work through Riverwood. Many of us have tried to communicate with Mrs. Smith via her blog, but she will not respond except to send vitriolic emails with filthy words to those who attempt it and to publicly post their email addresses and names on her blog. Nor will she allow any comments to be posted. That is her right as owner of her blog, but it makes it very difficult to dialogue.
I have been very surprised by the route these accusations have taken. I would have thought that the first step would have been to either contact the parents of the alleged harassers or to contact us. Instead, it has been third parties and then publicly through the reporter. It would seem to me that these steps would have been taken only when resolution by direct contact didn’t work.
A resolution on this would be beneficial to all involved. I agree that having a conversation about this with an unbiased mediator would be a wonderful idea. You obviously feel comfortable with the staff at Riverwood as you have already spoken with them. They would be a great choice if you would agree. However, I’m sure there are others also willing to mediate.
Well as some of you may know I am taking a logic class this semester. It’s pretty simple. So I made this logic proof with my teacher and its really sweet. We were able to weigh the accountability of the accusers and accusations. its was really interesting
No person can honestly its not even possible we are a cult. First off Xenos Columbus has around 5,000 people all from different age groups, background, and ethnicity’s. In additions all the members must interact with society on a daily basis. This alone should disprove were a cult but I will continue.
Next, no claim ever made has any proof to it. The harassment of your daughter never had any substance to it. Now if she really was harassed that is a tragedy but there was never any evidence or proof of this, there isn’t even a description of what this harassment was. This also is applies for the police a report filled against me by my mom saying that I was involved in cult activity. This was also found to have no evidence or substance. The claim of these “camping trips” in which girls were college guys took out high school girls. This was also proven unfounded by the police, and there are many pictures of the evidence that almost out entire fellowship was at this trip.
Finally would if we were a cult would we really be inviting the public to everyone of our meetings. You too Mr. Roszkowski are welcome to attend any of our various meeting, as well as my parents. And please do!!!! I am still contacting my sister and my dad. My sister will talk to me, but my dad no longer replies to my e-mails.
This should be evidence enough that were not a cult. And if we strip the name of cult out of the accusations, what is left? Nothing… a few people that feel like that wronged…
I have a question for you Mr. Roszkowski, because I cant figure it out. How do you get your parents to talk to you, to try and resolve issues when they wont respond to e-mails or phone calls? Please Mr. Roszkowski if you still talk to my parents please plea with them to talk to me. That’s all I want.
I’m with you, Keith.
Plain and simple, Mrs. Smith:
We do not know what we did. Tell us. Be specific.
I don’t know if I would say Parents Against Xenos is all about “making people aware of the cons of the group and the highly questionable methods of brainwashing.”
First of all, isn’t ALL brainwashing highly questionable? According to this statement, there are methods you don’t find highly questionable. Maybe we should try some of those.
Second, I’ve read the entire website. It is a bunch of insubstantial fluff, written in anger by a mother who believes she has lost control of her son. It is hardly an objective look at an organization and their activites.
By the bye, you keep bringing up this “Rick Ross Institute” as if it was somehow BAD for us. I did research on them for awhile the other day- according to their own FAQ’s, a group isn’t “bad” just because it is listed. A listing only means it has sparked controversy in one way or another.
The unfortunate thing is that the only source of Xenos information available on the site is the Parents Against Xenos wordpress blog, which, as I said before, is hardly credible and authoritative.
Why can’t the details of these accusations be brought to light in a mediated setting?
Mr. McCallum’s request seems very reasonable to me.
Hello, Mr. Roszkowski? Mrs. Smith? I’m glad to talk!
See, these are the things I’m saying are too vague and unverifiable to make any sense out of them: phrases like, “questionable and illegal activities”, “harrassment”, “your unethical manner in the name of God”, “the highly questionable methods and brainwashing of our youth” and so forth…
Don’t you see it’s impossible to understand how to correct “questionable activities” and “harassment”, etc?
And if there are “Many former members have much to say” — then by all means, let’s talk, with any mediator you choose!
Riverwood Chapel, the mayor, police, and high school principals can talk with us–surely you’re safe to talk about it if all these people felt OK about it, don’t you think so?
Surely we didn’t “wine and dine” all those people…and maybe their endorsement of us is not as far off-base as you might imagine.
Any press is good press, so why so concerned about the CULT issues. Jim was overtly fair considering all the questionable activities your group preaches. Your wine and dine with Jim paid dividends don’t be upset.
If everyone new of all the back door issues, very unusual for such and open and forthcoming group, and the harassment my daughter, and two other girls were subjected ot by your youth groups at Stow High School they too would be worried and should be. It’s so ironic that you are so concerned with your cult youth group being harassed by there pears when this is exactly what they do to kids who choose to leave your cult do to very questionable and illegal activities. I certainly wouldn’t want to wish the youth in your group the harrassment your youth did to my daughter and these girls thus forcing us to move her to another school district , however I do believe in carma and hope they reap what they sew.
Using religous persecution as your rock to hide behind only fuels the cult acusations and truths. Manipulating children is the issue not teaching religion. Religous persecution was your first line of defense when confronted about the harassment at the high school and on your blogs, a typical marter response to rally the troops. It worked for Bin laden as well.
Contacting Jim Carney was only my first avenue of defense to make people aware of your unethical manner in the name of God. Nothing is intended as harassment as you see it , it is only intended as awareness to others so they do not have to be subjected to Xenos’ own unethical campaign in the name of religion. You will have to answer to your maker in your own time.
Many former members have much to say i have been finding out and will be forthcoming in telling there stories when the time is right.
If people chose to attend your Xenos christian Cult so be it , but just as you promote th pros of the organization Parents against Xenos wish to make people aware of the Cons of the group and the highly questionable methods and brainwashing of our youth. Intelligent people will and can make an informed decision.
Congrats on being mentioned on the Rick Ross web site .